Sunday, September 13, 2009

Kicking a Dead Orator in the Eloquence

I feel a little guilty kicking a dead orator here, but I am going to pick up our previous class discussion, which I believe is also continued in the reading. It seems that a significant part of the transformation of rhetoric from the ancients to 16th Century, and the 16th to 17th Century has to do with the definition of eloquence. I will concede that my attack of Quintilian was incomplete; he didn’t state that a good speaker must be a good man; he said that an “orator” must be a good man. It was a perfect speaker that Quintilian was focused upon, and this orator possessed eloquence, which Conley tells us the humanists saw as “the harmonious union of wisdom and style whose aim was to guide men toward civic virtue” (109). While this idea is noble, it is impractical for humans in the same way that chivalry is impractical for the battlefield.

Keeping this analogy in mind, I find it interesting that Conley points to rhetoric as the bloodless alternative to physical warfare because it lessened the need for actual war and provided the educated with an ideal, much like Quintilian’s “orator,” of “philosopher and statesman” (112). The Renaissance’s revival of this perceived idealization allowed the elite to model their political structure on the hallowed ancients and provide an avenue for them to be “esteemed because they advocated a code of civic duty, gave education a genuine relevance to political life, and were themselves accomplished speakers” (113). The focus of the humanist take on Cicero, Aristotle, and Quintilian can be summed up for the early humanists by Salutati: “The good is to be more highly valued than the merely true, virtue preferred over knowledge, the will over intellect, and thus rhetoric over philosophy and eloquence over wisdom” (114).

The real shift does not occur until Trebizond, who Conley clearly doesn’t like. Trebizond completely cuts Quintilian, and his work, as Conley tells us, is “devoid of the requirement that the orator be a good man, in the moral sense. Rhetoric was rather, a pragmatic political art indifferent to morality” (115). High five, Trebizond. By the way, this was not a new concept. Augustine wrote in the 4th and 5th Century that rhetoric can be used effectively for either good or evil (Matsen 361). From this point, eloquence becomes a matter of style, and although Erasmus states that “the end of education was a development of eloquent persons of character,” there is no mention regarding the orator’s ability being influenced by his morality. The rest of the section has little more to add to this point until the coming of the 17th Century.
Here the focus becomes “affect” or emotional appeal of persuasion. Where Quintilian said the end of rhetoric is "‘the moving of men’s minds’" (153), Caussin, Keckermann, and Vossius say the end is "‘the moving of the heart’" (158). Bacon says the same thing, if more eloquently (pun intended): rhetoric is used “to affect the imagination ‘to excite the appetite or will'” (164). This finally brings me to my point regarding Quintilian and eloquence from last week; the end of rhetoric has always been “the means by which any unspecified motive may be accomplished in the persuasion of an audience by an eloquent speaker who is able to ‘move souls’” (179).

For Quintilian and his ilk, the requirement of a good man was simply a lever to move the emotions of the audience, an idealized ethos, and even if I am wrong, and Quintilian, the philosopher-statesman, truly believed in the requirement of the good, the actual speakers of his day did not; they simply didn’t need to.

6 comments:

  1. "To move souls",yes,that is the ultimate goal of rhetoric. But it occurs to me that there is a major shift from that intimate setting of ancient Greece or Rome where one man attempts to persuade his elitist peers. The parameters within that setting would be conductive to the audience knowing the reputation of the speaker and therefore, be more able to judge or even know his virtue. Thus, a "virtuous" man could stand out from those who were not. But, the advent of the printing press removed this intimacy. Words became the standard by which to judge the oratory. The impression left by an orator hinged on delivery, and style, as much as on content. When two sides of the argument were presented, the guidance of the day was to consider the source-was the man virtuous or not.
    By the time the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries come into play, this intimacy is lost. Now style and content become the focus of any debate. And, the dissemination of that debate is widespread through the printed page. The orator is taken out of the equation for the author (speaker) is now an often unknown quantity. Yet, his words are in text to be quoted, studied, and immortalized or shot down. How can virtue have any role in this discussion?

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  2. Kudos for your erudite wit, Tony, but I guess I, too, will have to disagree with you (and I mean this in the grandest sense possible...and no pun intended here, because I think/hope that the "middling ground" will be the better course of action).

    I shall begin by practicing what I praise by addressing your points that I (sort of) agree with. I agree that rhetoric was not a perfect alternative to warfare. In an age of absolute monarchs, rhetoric was needed only to inspire people to do what they are told.

    I do not believe, however, that Quintillion (especially since it was only after the Enlightenment had reached full swing that the ancients dropped into the average household for a dance) had anything to do with the people handing over the keys to the kingdom and saying, "Here you go. We can't take the stress any more!"

    I also agree that Conley seems to have his own slant a lot. Thanks to Lila, however, I've really been looking out for rhetoric being used against me, and Conley, like Isocrates and Augustine, seems to be saying, "Hey, I wrote a book and published it at the University of Chicago. If you're smart/sane/intelligent, you'll agree with me."

    I still do not, however, agree that Quintillion was looking for a perfect speaker. To me, a perfect speaker is someone who never drops a syllable or says a wrong word. Quintillion was looking for the perfect orator. Again, semantics, I know, but that's what we're arguing here. He said, "Exceptional gifts of speech," not perfect, and someone who concerns himself with "upright and honorable living." There are other objects of concern, but these are the primary. If I'm not mistaken, even though Jesus talked about a lot of other things, too, the ideas that stand out the most are, "Love your God with all your heart," and "Love your neighbor as yourself." People can tend to focus on some of the more obscure parts of the Bible, but that's people. We cannot attribute the mob mentality to individuals, and we should not aspire to have it for ourselves.

    There are good people who are good speakers, and there are great people who have been great speakers. Admittedly, there are terrible people who have been great speakers and great people who have been terrible speakers, but not everyone who has tremendous powers of rhetoric is bent on destroying the world. (I've hit a high note on amplification, so I must be headed into the grand style.)

    Granted, the ancients are sometimes given too much credit for present day thought. After all, if a bunch of guys who live with other guys can do it, then so can we, by god! But who really has the time to think for themselves? It looks very exhausting.

    I'm also sure that there was some oral tradition that these men gleaned some ideas from at one point or another, but these were smart men, and they put it all together in a way that is still being talked/written about (and copied) thousands of years later. Not one man in a million has that sort of staying power, and there were four or five in one town.

    I know this is turning into my very own blog--and this refutation might be coming out longer than your original post--but I have one more point to make and then I am going to bed. The men that belong to this generation that deletes the necessity of morality from the qualities of an "orator" is the same generation that encourages a rhetor to appeal more to an auditor's emotions than his intellect... I'm just saying.

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  3. I think I enjoy the written resonses more than the class discussion, so I'll keep it going. Marilyn: I think you have an excellent claim in pointing to the size of the audience and the form of medium, and even in the 18th Century I would agree, but Conley points out that a huge demand for a text drumbed up 43 copies of a text in the 16 Century, and Luther and Calvin were still speaking to one congregation at a time. So, while I agree that a change was on the way, I think the early Humanists had a very similar situation to the Greeks.

    Emily: Wow! Rarley have I had a written butt-kicking this long. I think you definitely have me over a barrel on the longevity of the Greek thinkers (they must have done a few things right to have lasted so long), but you'll have to give me more to make me relent that the Renaissance Humanists in Florence didn't hijack an easy ride to ethos. "I am a good man; listen to me." I'm not saying all speakers or writers harbor evil in their hearts, but I think the harboring doesn't hinder the speaker's ability. In fact, as Machiavelli is going to point out in just a few years, you have to be a little evil to do good.

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  4. You know, I think I let myself run away with myself. I am not sure that either of us have each other completely convinced, but I also know that just because smart men have a lot of good things to say doesn't mean that everything that they think or believe is correct. I think that "bad" people have studied so long at being manipulative that, I agree, they can be very effective speakers. I also believe, however, that manipulation tends to be that of the emotions rather than the intellect.

    Part of the reason that I mistrust emotions so much is that I am a bit too prone to them myself, and I realize that they can be exploited pretty easily. I think that the humanists, while also very intelligent, realized that this was an easier way to persuade and, like Marilyn said, the crowds were made up of more unlearned commoners, which would mean that the humanists (which is an odd word for people, like Ramus, who believe that audiences are "barbarish") believed that the better way (and it may have been) to persuade was through ethos.

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  5. I am not sure if the "rhetoric over philosophy and eloquence over wisdom" represents the original spirit of Cicero, et. al., or if it is a distortion that can occur in any reinterpretation of text and ideology. It seems to be a step back to the style over substance discussions we had in previous classes. Elitism that labels the part of humanity that isn't "us" as barbarish is counter-evolutionary. Many of the ideas and principles studied in this course are the foundation blocks for the development of Western civilization. The individuals who brought these ideas foward did history possible injury by keeping them as the exclusive property of an intellectual mob and by reducing those outside of the in-crowd to the status of sheep to be swayed by sham and slick talk. As individuals, they may have done as much to impede social progession as their ideas did to advance it. Anyone who trys to use a person's emotions to manipulate, or who appeals to vanity by flattering the intellect, is at best a dubious character. The ethics of such a speaker may be regarded as suspicious if not corrupt.

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  6. Can we post to reply to a comment and not the original blog? I'm going to anyway...even if it's never seen. Marilyn raised the question of whether or not virtue is relevant with the written word as the author is unknown or distanced from us to the point of making knowing their virtue a distinct impossibility.

    The onus then is on the work itself to be, (dare I say it after Fox News has abrogated the phrase and made it notorious?) fair and balanced. Rhetorical training is more important than ever, BECAUSE of this distance. We must be able to analyze a given message, whatever its form, so that we can assess to the extent possible, the virtue of the argument. What appeals are being used, what manner of presentation etc. We are left to determine (through training in communication/rhetoric), as best we can, the virtue of the message/argument itself.

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